samudra8O (January 1, 1970 at 7:29 am)

Hunter has a point though.

cl998 (January 1, 1970 at 7:29 am)

Again, why would the CIA keep using it then? They're not gonna keep doing something that doesn't get proper info...

swiftysmithuk (January 1, 1970 at 7:29 am)

Remove Brackets and spaces from the links in my last comment

swiftysmithuk (January 1, 1970 at 7:29 am)

"intel agencies are a bit above that, they'll actually want REAL info"This is the point, torture does not work in obtaining reliable information, take for example the Tipton Three who confessed to meeting Bin laden when held in Gitmo, it was later found that they where in the UK at the time:tinyurl(.)com/MythsAboutTortureCIA Director William Colby, Torture is ineffective:watch?v=DkanFveaCn0BRIEFING TO THE UN COMMITTEE AGAINST TORTURE USA:tinyurl(.)com/Breifing-On-US-Torture

cl998 (January 1, 1970 at 7:29 am)

That's straying from the point somewhat and a whole other different issue. Of course I'd expect to be jailed if I went and tortured someone to, I dunno, tell me where my stolen bike was kept...

swiftysmithuk (January 1, 1970 at 7:29 am)

How are Intel agencies any different from individuals, should there be two laws, one for agencies and another for you and me?Is it OK for you to torture to gain Intel or would you have to join some organisation to attain that right?Do you think that torture is the way forward?The link below has nothing to do with torture but I feel it shows just how much we have drifted away from the rule of law in recent times.Remove Brackets:tinyurl(.)com/TheLawByFredericBastiat

cl998 (January 1, 1970 at 7:29 am)

You make a good point if you look at it in the way that they need to meet "targets" (like, if they torure x-amount of people a month into being "guilty", they'll have met their "target", same as regular Police here have quotas to meet), but surely intel agencies are a bit above that, they'll actually want REAL info rather than just making up the numbers?

swiftysmithuk (January 1, 1970 at 7:29 am)

I have never said that torture is ineffective, infact it is very effective, the problem is its effective in obtaining whatever information the person using it requires, whether it is true or not is irrelevant.If someone had your balls in a vice and told you that when you admit you are a fairy on the top of a christmas tree they will stop turning the handle, what would you do? Also I assume that you think this is only happening to terrorists, but if they had been proven guilty..why do it?

cl998 (January 1, 1970 at 7:29 am)

If was so ineffective, then why would they keep using it? It's not like the CIA or whoever would do it for "fun" (in some cases maybe they do), they're intelligence gathering organisations so will only do what is most effective at getting them their "intel" and info...

riotriotriot55 (January 1, 1970 at 7:29 am)

What's really scary is that there is a Waterboard at a museum in Toronto along with other 'outdated torture devices'